Chat Session of March 8, 2005
Myofascial Release Therapy: A Mind /Body/Spirit Approach, with Susie Hale
Tara_Brown: Welcome to the CCNH Chat Room. We are glad you've joined us. CCNH offers holistic nutrition and natural health education; we do not diagnose or dispense nutritional/health advice. We invite you to peruse our Resource links in the Students and Alumni Services area to get a jumpstart on researching any personal health issues.
Susie Hale: I am a little early, I realize. Good to see there are some others here already.
Mary Kathryn Saville: Hi, Dr Hale - looking forward to your topic
Barbara Wagner: I am so glad to be here.. it starts at 4 CST correct? which is 5 EST?
Susie Hale: Yes, Barbara, that is correct.
Susie Hale: Are any of you familiar with MFR - Myofascial Release therapy?
Barbara Wagner: Yes
Susie Hale: Do you practice MFR, Barbara?
Barbara Wagner: I have FMS and this is a huge topic :)
Mary Kathryn Saville: Only what I learned in NH 507
Susie Hale: Well, I'll jump right in then!
Barbara Wagner: excellent!
Karen Gleason: Yes, I am certified in it as a LMT
Susie Hale: MFR is a bodywork technique that is practiced by massage therapists, physical therapists, physicians, etc.
Susie Hale: The focus is to work with the fascial system of the body. The fascial system is unique in that it is a "uni-system" connecting the entire body.
Susie Hale: Fascial tissue is 3 dimensional. When healthy, it is flexible yet extremely strong with a tensile strength of about 2000 lbs per square inch.
Barbara Wagner: wow! 2000 lbs!
Susie Hale: Welcome, everyone. I have already begun chatting about our topic for today. Does anyone have questions that are just wanting to jump out?
Mary Kathryn Saville: Does classic massage address the fascia sufficiently ?
Barbara Wagner: Does the Fascia cover the muscles or is it something completely different?
Susie Hale: Mary Kathryn, I'll give you my perspective. Massage therapy certainly impacts the fascial system but does not have the deep, lasting effect of appropriately applied MFR therapy.
Mary Kathryn Saville: Cool. Thanks
Susie Hale: Barbara, yes, fascial tissue encompasses all muscle fibers, organs, bones, etc.
Barbara Wagner: okay.. so it's not just the muscles..
Susie Hale: For those of you who eat meat, or ever did, do you remember the clear, tough matter that you had to pull from the bone?
Rosemary Callari: yes
Barbara Wagner: ahhh!
Susie Hale: That is dead fascia. Living fascia has that strength but is flexible and allows movement while holding strong.
Barbara Wagner: Is there a dietary connection with an individual with a healthy fascia tissue and one with tender points?
Susie Hale: The wondrous thing about fascia is that it also has a fluid component. So there is movement of this water element around and through the tissue.
Karen Gleason: Susie, have you found that someone who is dehydrated or poorly hydrated is harder to lengthen or stretch the fascia?
Susie Hale: Barbara and Karen, hydration is a major factor for fascia because of this fluid component of it.
Susie Hale: As an aside, I learned that mild dehydration is, across the board, a commonality among people who live with chronic pain.
Susie Hale: As I have learned more about the connection between hydration and fascial restrictions, my water intake has drastically increased.
Mary Kathryn Saville: That's very interesting: yet another reason to stay hydrated.
Susie Hale: So within this highly fluid tissue, which exists throughout the body without end, there is energy movement.
Karen Gleason: Susie, with someone who is a paraplegic, is there something more I can do to help this person with spasms and tightness, other than hydration?
Susie Hale: This fluid component of a uni-system - that has no beginning and end - allows an avenue for communication, energetically, throughout the body.
Susie Hale: Interesting question, Karen. Years ago, I learned about piezoelectricity. Are you familiar with that?
Karen Gleason: NO
Karen Gleason: sounds interesting
Susie Hale: Hello, Glen! Ah, a familiar "face". (I met Glen last year at the ANMA convention!)
Jackie Refsdal: sorry I'm so late. Computer problems
Susie Hale: Welcome, Jackie.
Mary Kathryn Saville: Does fascia explain reflexology, acupressure and iridology?
Glen Depke: Hello Susie, sorry I'm late
Susie Hale: No, Mary Kathryn, MFR has a different intention and works with the fascial system. The focus of reflexology and acupressure is quite different. And then iridology is more an assessment technique, not an applied body technique. Does that help?
Mary Kathryn Saville: Yes, Thanks. The uni-system communication throughout the body is intriguing
Susie Hale: Working with the fascial system clearly impacts the physical body. But, the wondrous element is that the energy system of the body is also effected.
Susie Hale: Have any of you had experiences with memories being stored in the body?
Mary Kathryn Saville: YES!
Glen Depke: This is tied into meridians?
Sharon Snively: What do you mean by that?
Karen Gleason: yes
Barbara Wagner: not 100% on what that truly means.. I do have an old injury that flares up around the same time it was incurred-- does that count? :)
Susie Hale: This occurs with MFR quite often. No, Glen, this is not intended to be working with the meridians but unintentionally of course it does.
Sharon Snively: I have pain on the top of my head from a head injury I had over 30 years ago
Glen Depke: I personally have not experienced "stored" memories but I have worked with several clients that have.
Susie Hale: There is the belief that memories are stored in the body. For instance, an injury occurs, and in time feels "ok". Later, perhaps when receiving bodywork and the therapist begins to work around that area, memories of the injury occur.
Susie Hale: As the memories surface, it is the opportunity to heal the emotions that perhaps were associated with the injury that were not expressed at the time of the injury. This is quite common with other types of trauma as well.
Glen Depke: It seems to be quite common.
Mary Kathryn Saville: It's amazing to experience...
Susie Hale: What can occur is that the emotions surface - and they do not have to be just negative ones.
Sharon Snively: Every once in a while, my scalp gets very tender there, and it was a closed head injury with no outward trauma. Is that a stored memory?
Susie Hale: As the emotions surface and the person talks them through or expresses them, the full healing can occur.
Karen Gleason: I have experienced this with people with post traumatic stress disorder while doing body work.
Susie Hale: Sharon, it would be great to explore that.
Susie Hale: Yes, Karen, and it is important to keep the person safe and support them.
Barbara Wagner: So Myofascial bodywork isn't just an external working of the system it is a holistic treatment?
Karen Gleason: yes, thank you.
Lee Cordero: would it perhaps correlate with preemies, that have the heels of their feet stuck many, many times for labs. Then when they get older have issues with people touching their feet, even though it is no longer even visible?
Susie Hale: Yes, Barbara, the way that my instructor teaches it and therefore the way I practice it.
Glen Depke: I have been able to distinguish pain by working on emotions with another technique. Would this provide a similar result?
Susie Hale: Perhaps, Glen. What I love about MFR is that it allows the physical body and the energy body to receive work.
Mary Kathryn Saville: In the coursework for NH 507 I got the impression that it was a superficial technique. I gather from what you are saying, the movement can be very deep.
Rosemary Callari: How likely is it that a memory from many years ago could be remembered thru MFR?
Susie Hale: Mary Kathryn, "deep" can mean different levels. MFR does not have to go deep physically to have profound effects.
Mary Kathryn Saville: Interesting...
Susie Hale: Rosemary, very likely.
Rosemary Callari: Hi. Thanks.
Mary Kathryn Saville: How does one locate a practitioner who is trained in myofascial release?
Susie Hale: The body remembers. Think about getting onto a bicycle after years of not riding. Or, think about what happens in your body when you just think about going to the dentist. What is that but body memory.
Sharon Snively: Susie: For those of us who are not familiar, can you briefly explain MFR
Barbara Wagner: I have read in recent news that people with FMS often have more MFR and that MFR is what is flaring up not necessarily FMS. What is your opinion on that? Is MFS more prevalent than we knew or is that just another acronym/dis-ease du jour?
Susie Hale: Mary Kathryn, there are many therapists who use MFR in their work. However, they may have been trained only in the form of MFR that is strictly physical.
Glen Depke: This technique is in NH507? This is the next class that I am taking.
Mary Kathryn Saville: Ahhh. I would so love to experience it !
Susie Hale: Barbara, I am confused....your message says MFR and MFS. Can you clarify?
Barbara Wagner: Myofascial Syndrome sorry.. not Myofascial Release
Susie Hale: Glen, I believe that it is mentioned in NH 507. If you want to learn more about it, you may want to visit my teacher's website: www.myofascialrelease.com
Karen Gleason: thanks for the resource Susie
Mary Kathryn Saville: Glen, they don't talk about it much in NH 507 I just finished the course.
Susie Hale: Barbara, my belief and experience is that myofascial pain syndrome is not a "disease dujour". In fact, it is what many of the "disease dujours" actually are and just have not been identified properly.
Glen Depke: Thank you. I will visit it soon.
Barbara Wagner: I guess that is what my question was, as I said they are saying now that many Fibro patients are really experiencing MFS and not so much Fibromyalgia
Susie Hale: There is a medical text "Myofascial Pain and Dysfunction" by 2 physicians. (It is 2 volumes, actually.) I found the book years ago and "discovered" myself in it.
Susie Hale: Barbara, I do know that many people living with fibromyalgia have found relief with MFR. This does not mean that they were misdiagnosed or that every person with fibromyalgia should try it.
Barbara Wagner: I understand there is a school in PA for the study of MFR, do you know of any other locations where one can get educated to do the body work?
Barbara Wagner: understood. thanks!
Karen Gleason: Do you know who the authors are?
Susie Hale: Barbara, my instructor teaches all over the world. He is John Barnes, PT, and his is the web site I listed above. Take a look and you can see his teaching schedule.
Susie Hale: Karen: Travell and Simons
Karen Gleason: thanks....I will check into getting this...
Barbara Wagner: On that web site as well, I see they have seminars to learn the body work.
Barbara Wagner: awesome
Susie Hale: Janet Travell was John Kennedy's physician when he was in the white house. Are any of you old enough to remember him? Well, he had a chronic back problem.
Susie Hale: Yes, Barbara, his seminars are where he teaches.
Susie Hale: The key to the approach that John teaches is the length of time the therapist holds a hand position.
Mary Kathryn Saville: I wish there were opportunities for trying this at the conference! Think of the fun of having students available to be paid to practice on attendees!
Susie Hale: Because fascial tissue is so incredibly strong and when it restricts, it "glues" down, it is important to hold positions until the tissue "melts." This is anywhere from 90-120 seconds minimum.
Deborah Brown: Would you put up his web address again, I cannot see before I logged in.
Susie Hale: Mary Kathryn, this technique should only be practiced by highly trained and skilled therapists.
Susie Hale: Deborah: www.myofascialrelease.com
Karen Gleason: Susie, this sounds very fascinating...does this site also have info in the piezoelectricity you spoke of earlier?
Mary Kathryn Saville: Oh. Too bad
Susie Hale: Karen: It may mention it. You may want to do a search too. Piezoelectricity. is the energy/electrical movement that occurs when you touch the body. It is "sent" from cell to cell.
Susie Hale: And, quartz crystals conduct piezoelectricity. Do any of you know about healing characteristics that have been explored about the use of crystals?
Mary Kathryn Saville: Yes. I've been working with them in Native healing for years now
Judy Bivens: I use the crystal for migraines and have had good experiences.
Karen Gleason: I have heard of it, only.
Glen Depke: When using this technique is it simply a touch technique or do you utilize essential oils?
Susie Hale: MFR allows the practitioner to do "Body" work and "energy" work. In fact, on clients who are too tender to be touched, energetic MFR is a great technique.
Mary Kathryn Saville: Please describe how you do energetic MFR.
Susie Hale: Glen, MFR is a bodywork technique. Of course, essential oils as well as healing crystals can be integrated into a bodywork session.
Jackie Refsdal: I have only heard about crystals
Susie Hale: Mary Kathryn, it is the same with holding techniques, but off of the body instead of on the body.
Mary Kathryn Saville: Interesting
Susie Hale: Jackie, I am clearly way older than you. LOL! Crystals were "the craze" back in the 80's.
Sharon Snively: Is energetic MFR similar to Reiki or are they completely different?
Mary Kathryn Saville: Immense implications for the energy field, results sound similar to Reiki and energetic balancing techniques - talk about stored memory !
Jackie Refsdal: Is MFR similar to chiropractic networking?
Susie Hale: Sharon, all energy approaches are working with the 'energy' body, so in that, they are similar. However, just as different bodywork approaches have different intentions, here the intentions are different also.
Susie Hale: Jackie, again, network chiropractic is working with specific intentions, as is MFR. They are different.
Sharon Snively: Thank You for the clarification
Jackie Refsdal: Ok
Susie Hale: Truly, we all know that there are many avenues to reach the same goal. MFR is just another route....and one that I love!
Susie Hale: Restricted tissue disallows movement and can act like a pull in a sweater. Although the "pull" is in one place, it can end up pulling all over the sweater.
Glen Depke: How long would a session with a client last for a typical MFR?
Karen Gleason: me too, I have experienced amazing changes in my own body while doing the certification program, we worked on each other and I was totally amazed at how much it works.
Susie Hale: As the pull reaches, it changes the body's posture. Over time, this changed posture can feel "normal".
Susie Hale: Glen, I work on clients for short periods of time and long periods of time....anywhere from a few minutes to hours. Typically, they are half hour, hour, one and a half or 2 hour sessions.
Lee Cordero: What are some of the major complaints of clients that you see?
Susie Hale: MFR sessions generally are different from a massage session. With massage, the client remains mostly passive. With MFR, the client becomes involved, is allowed to move with the treatment and needs to stay in communication with the therapist.
Mary Kathryn Saville: What is the typical number of treatments?
Susie Hale: Lee, I work with clients who live with chronic pain. This is what drew me to MFR, personally, and since I experienced such great results, I began to do the work.
Susie Hale: Mary Kathryn: There is really no "typical" as it depends on the person.
Lee Cordero: Any type of chronic pain?
Mary Kathryn Saville: Is it a wellness practice, too?
Glen Depke: As the consultant do you feel charged or drained after a MFR? Energy work seems to have an affect on the consultant as well as the client.
Judy Bivens: What about joint pain?
Susie Hale: I teach individuals, coworkers, friends, etc how to do self-MFR techniques also.
Jackie Refsdal: This sounds like such an interesting topic! I'm looking forward to reading about all that I missed.
Claudia Bernstein: Do the MFR movements focus on the forehead chakra or pressure point in the mandible?
Susie Hale: Glen: MFR is very physical work. But, as you know, when you love your work you get energized!
Susie Hale: Claudia: The focus with MFR is not chakras or pressure points. These may be treated while doing MFR, but it is not the specific intention of the work.
Mary Kathryn Saville: If a person didn't have a pain complaint and was in good alignment, would this be something they could do several times a year to maintain wellness?
Glen Depke: Borrowing benefits as I call it.
Susie Hale: Well, I see that we have about 5 more minutes. Any more pressing questions? You can always email me at shale@ccnh.edu later.
Claudia Bernstein: I am just sorry that I joined so late...we are having a major white out here so, I will ask where is there more info on this?
Susie Hale: Mary Kathryn: You are asking someone who loves MFR and has never "finished" the work. I just keep on receiving it.
Mary Kathryn Saville: I would love to experience it, too !
Karen Gleason: thanks Susie, this was very interesting and educational....thanks for your time and work with us...
Sharon Snively: Thank you for the web site, I will use it to educated myself on MFR, which is a fascinating new subject for me
Barbara Wagner: Thanks for the great information!
Susie Hale: Claudia: Please feel free to email me shale@ccnh.edu. Or go to www.myofascialrelease.com
Mary Kathryn Saville: Thanks everyone for such great questions.
Claudia Bernstein: thank you Susie
Lee Cordero: great topic, thanks
Rosemary Callari: Thanks Susie.
Julie Sealey: Thanks
Glen Depke: Thank you Susie, I'll talk to you soon.
Diana Binford: Very interesting topic. Thanks, Susie
Susie Hale: Yes, thanks to everyone! Hope ya'll have a great evening. I'll close with what I actually call MFR: My Favorite Reality!
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